Select Category THE BAKER GUN & FORGING CO. Previous trademark used by W.H. Smith Maker in Syracuse, NY on shotguns manufactured 1877-1888. Smith section for listings of the Baker patented three-barrel and two-barrel guns. This section covers the popular hammer and hammerless guns manufactured 1887-1919 by the Baker Gun & Forging Company, (founded by William H.
Baker) in Syracuse and Batavia, NY and the H&D Folsom Arms Co. 1920-1930 in Norwich, CT. These guns sold in substantial quantities (approx. 190,000) and they attracted a strong and devoted following. The Baker sidelock shotgun is considered to be one of America's Classic shotguns. Like the L.C.
Smith, Parker, LeFever, Fox and Ithaca, collector interest in these high quality sidelock shotguns is increasing. The popular Baker Paragon grade hammerless shotguns were made to customer order, and the company went to great lengths to accommodate the customer's requests for configuration, finish and engraving. Therefore, no two guns are exactly alike. Paragon guns with damascus barrels with 80% or better original finish without pitting, reboring or polishing out are of equal or greater value as shotguns with Krupp steel barrels. All 'Baker Grade' guns were available with the extra draw lug and firing pin block safeties.
However, the 'Batavia Grade' guns did not have these features. The Blue Book of Gun Values strongly recommends an expert examination and appraisal when contemplating the purchase of a high grade Baker in 80% or better original condition. From Blue Book Publications.
MODELS, SERIAL NUMBERS AND MANUFACTURING DATES FOR ITHACA GUNSReprinted with express written permission from Walter Claude Snyder’s books “The Ithaca Gun Company From The Beginning” and “Ithaca Featherlight Repeaters: The Best Gun Going: A Complete History of the Ithaca Model 37 and the Model 87”.
$300 FTF in Illinois with valid FOID. Face to face in Illinois would be best. I am not an FFL or C+R, so FTF would be best.This is a BAKER BATAVIA LEADER double-barrel shotgun.This was made between 1909 and 1919, I believe, made in Batavia, New York.
Here's what I could find out:The Baker Gun & Forging Co. Had a line of double barrel shotguns, sidelocks, called Batavia guns in 1903. They had, in 1909, 'The Baker Gunner,' the 'Batavia Leader' with twist barrels at $25, the 'Batavia Special' with steel barrels at $21.75, the 'Batavia Damascus' at $28, the 'Batavia Brush' at $24, the 'Batavia Ejector' at $35. This gun in the pics is the BATAVIA LEADER as you can see.The Batavia line did not have the 'firing pin block safety' or the 'draw block' which passes through the barrel lug and into the frame.The sidelock 'Black Beauty' replaced the Batavia Special, Leader, and Damascus guns about 1916.The Batavia Leader number series were from 75,000 to about 106,000.
This one is 786XX, which puts it in the early days.Now, Baker Gun & Forging sold the business to H.& D. Folsom in 1919 and then the guns were marked 'Baker Gun Co.' As this one is not, I assume it is earlier than that.
Baker did offer a 'Batavia Leader' however. Grades for these Folsom owned Baker Guns were the 'Batavia Leader,' 'Black Beauty Special,' 'Paragon,' 'Expert,' and 'DeLuxe.' Folsom listed the Black Beauty Special for $62 -$77 with ejectors, the Paragon $100 -$115, the Expert for $215, and the DeLuxe for $385. Folsom era Bakers usually have an F before or after the serial numbers 1- about 14,000 so again, I believe this one is before that.H & D Folsom Arms Co. 23, 25, and 31 (1929-1930) only list the Batavia Leader and Black Beauty Special. By 1932 they had no more Baker Guns.Baker Gun Co.
Was closed in 1930 and the factory started making car parts. About 150,000 Baker guns were produced prior to the Folsom ownership.So based on the above, I believe this is a 1909 - 1919 gun.This gun has plenty of wear, and a light patina, and a few little rust spots in the one photo near the forearm.
It has some small chips to the wood near the trigger guard. This has a chip to the lower portion of the buttplate and the wood (toe?) at that point of the stock.This is OLD, and and the info I have found on the internet says that you don't want to shoot a gun this old unless checked by a gunsmith first.an expert gunsmith who knows these old guns and can tell you if it is safe.Please see the pictures. If you need more photos, shoot me an email and I can send you more. Am I asking too much? Book value is a bit more than the asking price.You need to list the condition of the bores, very important on this gun where condition is everything, and if I were you I'd try listing it on Doublegunshop.com Gunboards is tops for the regular run of C&Rs but for shotguns there are more folks interested in the older shotguns on that specialty. site.Standard 12 ga bores are.729 inch (cylinder bore), a full choke is.694, modified.710 and Improved Cylinder.720 inches. If you have an inside micrometer they're easy to measure but all dimensions may vary from 'standard'.
If I wasn't a nice person I'd use the term 'gun snob'.
This appears to be a very nice restock of an old double. The Baker Batavia Special was the lowest grade gun Baker produced. Lack of an F in the serno indicates manuf before 1919 as ownership changed to a company named Folsom and Folsom guns had f's in the serno. Baker had an interesting history as he contributed to starting up L.C. Smith and Ithaca Gun before coming out with a shotgun with his own name on it. The wood on this is probably worth more than the rest of the gun.
Batavia Specials go for between $200 and $400 when you see them. Although I think they are nice old doubles there is virtually no collector interest in them. Ken Hurst information on the barrels being being damsacus is incorrect provided this gun is a 'Batavia Special' vs. 'Batavia Leader'.
The Batavia Special was never made with Damascus barrels, the leader barrels should be stamped on top near the chambers in very small letters 'Homotensile steel', the other barrel will be stamped 'choke bored'. When this gun came out fluid steep barrels were a 'new fangled contraption' and damascus was preferred for it's good looks. Baker named them homotensile steel to indicate they were homogeneous (one piece) tensile(strong). Unless the chambers have been opened with a reamer they are likely shorter than 2 3/4', probably 2 1/2 or 2 5/8'I believ ethe barrels of batavia specials made between 1900-1919 were made by Crescent Arms. When Folsom acquired Baker Gun the barrels were made Belgium however it is this piece of Baker Gun history I could have backwards, I need to check my reference material to be sure.
F in the serial number indicats a 1920 and later Baker, I think they stayed in production until 1938. Although no real collector interest in Baker Guns exists the guns made before the Folsom acquisition seem to be preferred.
Personally I tend to think of them as the poor mans L.C. Info on Bakers is scarce.
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With passing years and no collector interest details faded into history. There is one Baker advertising brochure from 1909 'The Baker Gunner' that could provide info on barrel lengths. It was reprinted and can be found. I confirmed pre 1919 Batavia Specials (no F in Serno) had barrels made in Belgium. It was the Folsom made Bakers that had the Crescent Arms Barrels. I believe 28 inch barrels would have been available but there is a chance someone cut yours back from 30 or 32'.
If there is choke constriction in the last two inches of either barrel it has probably not been cut. Chambers would have definitely been 2 5/8' Remember the early nitro powders 'white' did not create the higher pressures of todays duplex powders.
The standard load for 12 gauge at the turn of the 20th century was 1 ounce and 1 1/8 ounce. You would be wise to handload for this old piece of americana and use low pressure, standard volicity loads at those shot weights.
Sidelock double barrel stocks are inherently prone to cracking near the receirver. Gentle loads are in order. Also if you take it hunting and shoot at reasonble ranges, say 30 to 35 yards you'll find the game comes down just the same even without high velocity 1 1/4 loads. The following additional information on Baker Guns was taken from the discussion board of the L.C. Smith Collectors Assn:Baker/Batavia - Baker references are -The Double Gun Journal - Vol 3, Iss 3&4; Vol 9, Iss 2; and Vol 14, Iss 4American Rifleman - June 1968Shooting Times - May 1962The Gun Report - Nov 1989 and Jan 1991Field & Stream - April 1908Guns Illustrated - 29th Edition, 1997The Batavia guns were the low priced or 'field grade' models of the Baker Gun & Forging Co.
To reduce costs the Batavia line did not have the 'firing pin block safety' or the 'draw block' which passes transversely through the barrel lug and mates into recesses in the frame, of the graded Baker hammerless guns and the Model 1897 hammer gun. After WW-I with the rise of repeaters Baker sold their gun business to H&D Folsom Co.
Baker Shotguns Serial Numbers 411
A major marketer, manufacturer and importer of low priced guns. Folsom added the 20-gauge to the Baker line that they produced. Folsom-made Baker guns normally have an F before or after the serial number.
In the very last Baker ads that I've found in old sporting magazines from April and May 1928, and October 1929, Folsom also offered a 410-bore Batavia Leader, though I've never seen one.During the Baker Gun & Forging Co. Days there were several variations of the lower priced 'Batavia' line. From a 1909 copy of The Baker Gunner - The Batavia Leader had twist barrels and listed at $25 - The Batavia Special had steel barrels and listed at $21.75 - The Batavia Damascus had Damascus barrels and listed at $28 - and, finally the Batavia Brush had 26-inch twist barrels and a straight-grip stock listing at $24 and offered swivels and a sling as an option for $3. There was also a Batavia Ejector that listed at $35 with steel barrels and $37.50 with Damascus barrels. By the H & D Folsom days they were all consolidated as the Batavia Leader with steel barrels. Pat - Your collection of Baker trap guns sounds interesting. The donation you made was a nice thing to do.
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Many shooters are not aware Baker Gun was one of the 'Big Six' of classic American Doubles. I have found them to be nice handling shooters.
Without serious collector interest they can be had for a song in comparison to Parker, Fox, Smith's etc. I believe Bakers provide a man of average means to own and collect some very nice classic American Doubles at very reasonable prices.
Unfortunately I think cowboy action shooting is going to cause a lot of otherwise nice Bakers to get chopped. I bought a very high condition Batavia Special earlier this year for the price of a used 870. The clerk at the store put a tape measure to the barrels to get an idea of what it would look like with 18.5 barrels. They were factory original 30'. I asked why he would do consider doing that, he said it would be a good cowboy gun.
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